Grime-watch ....

honestbroker1
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Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:11 am

From Grime's personal profile, we read:
Charlotte Pinkney was abducted by an ex-boyfriend and has never been seen since.
An initial search by the EVRD revealed a 'classic' secondary deposition site near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances.
The investigative team distrusted the dogs opinion until a full forensic search revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass.
This evidence was put to the suspect who fully admitted the offence.
Although Nick Pinkney was convicted of the offence, he never admitted it, and was convicted after hours of deliberation by a jury (after he had pleaded 'not-guilty')

And that button: it was not found in long grass at all; it was found in the dust-bag of a vacuum cleaner:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jul ... -nick-rose
In the week leading up to her 17th birthday in 2004, Charlotte Pinkney was seen all over her home town of Ilfracombe in north Devon. She was spotted drinking in a local pub, strolling with her boyfriend, hanging around near a local beach, sitting in a car and wandering through the town centre. All of which was perfectly normal behaviour - except she was supposed to be dead at the time of all of these sightings, killed by 22-year-old Nick Rose after she rejected his advances.

When Rose stood trial for her murder in February 2005, the crown's case was that he had killed her in the early hours of Saturday 28 February the previous year after giving her a lift from a house party. She was dead by 6:30am that morning, the case said. The prosecution conceded that if she was, or might have been, alive after that time, Rose was not guilty. But there was no postmortem to confirm a time of death: Pinkney's body has never been found. All the evidence suggesting Rose's guilt was circumstantial.

The jury convicted Rose by a majority of 11 to one after 25 hours of deliberations, deciding that the five defence witnesses who swore they saw Pinkney alive after Rose was alleged to have killed her were mistaken. But since the conviction, a further four people have come forward to say they too saw Pinkey in the five days after she left the party. One of the original five witnesses says that when he made his statement, police told him he was "putting a spanner in the works".


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Evidence from seven of the witnesses was considered in the court of appeal in 2006, but the judges decided they were mistaken, and refused Rose an appeal. One of the sightings, on the Tuesday after the Saturday Rose was supposed to have murdered Pinkney, took place in full view of CCTV cameras, but police said they erased the footage.

All nine witnesses have stuck to their guns and are prepared to give evidence should Rose succeed in his application for a retrial, which his solicitor hopes will happen after the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) agreed to look into his case. But while the CCRC carries out its investigation, Rose is in Wakefield prison, serving a life sentence with a minimum tariff of 20 years. It is punishment for a murder he insists he did not commit.

It has always been Rose's case that after leaving the party on 28 February, he dropped Pinkney by a nearby community centre and had no idea what happened to her after that. Some people interviewed by police said she turned up later at another party, but their evidence was not put to the jury.

Rose says that as he drove away, he headed off the main road and towards a reservoir after he thought he saw the lights of a police car. As a disqualified driver, he knew he would be in trouble if he got caught behind the wheel again. He hid the car in a tunnel, and climbed up the embankment through some brambles and clambered on top of a hut to check that the police had gone. That's why police found his lighter there after his arrest; the brambles explained the scratches on his arms and legs. (The jury heard evidence from one of Rose's friends who said she saw deep scratches on the side of his neck, but when Rose was examined by a police doctor - whose findings were not put to the jury - no evidence of fingernail scratches was found. In a police photograph of Rose taken after his arrest only fine scratches on his arms were visible.)

Other prosecution evidence included a statement from Rose's casual girlfriend, Kimberley Kelly, who said the day after he was alleged to have committed the murder, she and Rose went to Lee Bay, a spot a few miles from Ilfracombe. Police suggested he was looking for somewhere to bury the body; Rose claims he was looking for drugs he had heard were stashed there. In her statement, Kimberley said she spent that night with him and most of the following week, and that he was his usual self.

Murder convictions where there is no body aren't as unusual as people think. The Crown Prosecution Service doesn't hold figures, but a spokeswoman estimates there are two or three every year in England and Wales. In such trials, the prosecution often relies on DNA evidence to suggest that a killing took place. In Rose's case, tiny blood spots were found in the car he had been driving, and also on the tongue of his trainer. The blood belonged to Pinkney.

On the surface of it, the blood could well point to Rose's guilt. But he insists there could be an entirely innocent explanation. Pinkney was a cocaine user, and such blood specks could have been caused by her sneezing. If he had killed her, why didn't he clean the boot of the car, where the prosecution allege he stashed his victim's body? Before his arrest, he did clean the car, but left the boot untouched. This would seem an illogical move for someone trying to cover up a murder, his legal team says. Also, Pinkney had been in the car on numerous occasions, since the car was used by many members of a group of friends which included Rose, so the blood could be old.

As for the blood on the trainer, unused witness statements made to police after Pinkney's disappearance say that she had fought with another girl at the party, and blood could have landed on Rose then.

Rose's family say that the amount of blood was exaggerated by prosecutors in the trial; pictures showing the miniscule size of the spots were never shown to the jury. According to Rose's mother, Kay, "the jury were given the impression the car was covered in blood [but] the traces were tiny".

Another piece of evidence used to convict Rose was a small piece of elastic found in the car, which the prosecution claimed belonged to a pair of thong knickers Pinkney was wearing to the party. But none of her DNA was on the elastic and it was torn in a way which would be impossible in a struggle. At the original trial a couple staged a tussle over a similar piece of material, and proved it wouldn't break like that. A Lonsdale handbag said to belong to Pinkney was found near the reservoir but, again, none of her DNA was present. That was also the case with a boot discovered a month after her disappearance near Rose's house, and a button discovered in a vacuum cleaner belonging to the girl whose car Rose had been driving.

It is a very unusual case, as Rose's solicitor Campbell Malone points out.

"I find this an extraordinary conviction in many ways. The case against Nick was a circumstantial one with a relatively narrow window of time in which to have murdered this unfortunate young woman. There is compelling evidence that she was alive well after that window closed and a lot of local concern that an innocent man has been locked up for a crime he did not commit."
Last edited by honestbroker1 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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catkins
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by catkins » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:19 am

?
Madeleine McCann- Abducted May 2007 from Praia Da Luz, Algarve, Portugal.
DCI Redwood of Scotland Yard - stated that Madeleine could still be found - alive.
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Find. ... ign?_rdr=p

honestbroker1
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:31 am

The claim of Keela's involvement in the Abigail Witchal investigation comes, not in Grime's profile, but from the press:
Keela is a top dog in the police world, earning more in a day than her force's Chief Constable by working on some of the country's highest-profile crimes.
Keela, The pride of South Yorkshire
The pride of South Yorkshire

The 16-month-old springer spaniel can sniff out the smallest samples of human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.

The South Yorkshire Police dog has already helped forces across the country, including working on the stabbing of Abigail Witchalls in Surrey.

Her going rate is £530 per day, plus expenses.

If she worked every day of the year, she would earn almost £200,000 - around £70,000 more than her force's Chief Constable.

In the New Year, Keela will be travelling to America to assist the FBI with two murder inquiries.

A South Yorkshire force spokeswoman said the crime scene investigation dog has saved more then £200,000 nationally since April this year, helping with investigations in Ireland, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Surrey and the Thames Valley areas.

Her handler, PC Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year.

Unlike ordinary police dogs, Keela has never taken part in the usual six-week training course but has been trained, bit by bit, by PC Grime every day.

Her programme involved training her to ignore decomposing body materials other than human blood.

Instead of barking when she smells blood, she has been trained to have a "passive" alert - freezing with her nose as near to the subject matter as possible without touching, to enable scientists to recover the sample quickly and efficiently.

This technique has saved time and money on major investigations.

South Yorkshire Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes said: "Keela's training gives the force an edge when it comes to forensic investigation, which we should recognise and use more often.

"We know we have an operationally excellent dog section, and our specialist dogs are being developed in a unique way."
Abigail Witchals (thank goodness!) survived the vicious attack to which she was subjected, and, at least in theory, blood may have played a role in convicting her attacker had he not committed suicide before being brought to trial.

However, from contemporaneous accounts of the investigation, dogs used in that investigation were of the type that track the scents of living humans.

Abigail Witchalls was left paralysed after being stabbed in the neck as she pushed her toddler son in his buggy near her home in Little Bookham, Surrey, on 20 April in an attack that shocked the nation.
The attack, in one of Britain's lowest crime areas, sparked a massive police operation and drew intense media attention.
BBC News outlines a chronological timeline of the hunt for her attacker:

20 April 2005 - Mrs Witchalls, 26, is stabbed in the neck at a lane off Burnhams Road, Little Bookham. Her 21-month-old son, Joseph, witnesses the attack.

A neighbour summons help after finding her bleeding from her horrific injury but she is left paralysed and unable to speak.

21 April 2005 - Police release details of the attack to the press and make a public appeal for help to catch the perpetrator.

22 April - Police appeal for help tracing a man and woman seen speeding near the crime scene in a blue Peugeot car.

Abigail Witchalls with her husband and son by her bedside
Mrs Witchalls communicated with police from her hospital bed
A 28-year-old man and 29-year-old woman come forward voluntarily and are arrested.

23 April - Mrs Witchalls' father, Martin Hollins, speaks of the "tremendous shock" of what has happened.

24 April - Police free the woman arrested on 22 April without charge and eliminate her from their inquiry. The man is freed on police bail and is later ruled out as a suspect.

25 April - Still unable to talk, Mrs Witchalls gives a statement to police from her hospital bed at St George's Hospital in Tooting, south London, by mouthing "yes" and "no" answers.

26 April - Using the same method, Mrs Witchalls describes the attacker and details her ordeal to police. She tells them she saw the man driving a blue estate car.

27 April - A 25-year-old man is arrested in Croydon, south London, in connection with the attack.

29 April - The man arrested in Croydon is released pending further forensic enquiries but police say a huge leap forward has been made.

2 May - Police reveal they have compiled a list of 32 suspects following 700 calls by members of the public. But they face a two-week wait for the result of forensic tests.

4 May - Mrs Witchalls is transferred to a special spinal injuries unit at the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital in Stanmore, north west London.

A police officer patrols the scene of the stabbing
The scene of the stabbing was sealed off by police
9 May - Mrs Witchalls' elderly grandmother, Monica Kelly, dies suddenly - she is said to be "devastated".

12 May - 23-year-old garden centre worker Richard Cazaly, who lived within 200 yards of the attack scene, apparently commits suicide in Scotland.

Police reveal him to have been a suspect in the case and say DNA tests are being carried out.

They refuse to reveal the contents of an apparent suicide note left by Mr Cazaly but confirm they are examining his blue Volvo car and say officers are travelling to Australia to interview his former girlfriend.

13 May - Police say they are examining knives found in Mr Cazaly's car.

18 May - Mrs Witchalls makes a statement about her improving physical condition, saying she can now breathe on her own and talk for short periods.

She still cannot move her arms or legs but says feeling is returning to her body.

Her husband, Benoit, speaks publicly for the first time on the BBC's Crimewatch programme, following a reconstruction of the attack on his wife and a public appeal.

He insists he and his wife bear no anger towards the knifeman but says whoever it is needs help and that it would be "a tragedy" if he attacked again.

19 May - Police say members of the public came forward with two important leads following the Crimewatch appeal.

It is hoped one caller may be able to help trace two men seen stoking a bonfire who may be important witnesses.

Another may have witnessed the attacker running from the scene.

31 May - Surrey Police bring in specialist tracker dogs that can detect weeks-old smells to search the area of the attack.

Police say the latest searches follow the receipt of new information and are for "outstanding evidence", including the weapon used by the attacker.

12 June - The unborn baby of Abigail Witchalls is developing normally and doing well, the hospital treating her reveals.

30 June - Mrs Witchalls regains movement after initially being left paralysed.

She can now eat, speak, move her arm and hand and sit in a wheelchair.

The orthopaedic hospital treating her says she is recovering "in small but important ways".

3 August - Police hand over a dossier of evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS).

Surrey Police had been investigating Richard Cazaly but a spokeswoman would not comment on the contents of the file.

3 November - More the six months after she was first admitted, Abigail Witchalls is discharged from hospital.

She will continue to need ongoing therapy and nursing care.

11 November - Abigail Witchalls gives birth to a baby son. He is born weighing 5lbs 6oz on Friday afternoon at St George's Hospital in Tooting, south London.

22 November - The CPS announces Richard Cazaly would have faced criminal charges over the stabbing if he had not been dead.

Det Supt Adrian Harper of Surrey Police says: "The investigation is concluded. All the evidence points to Richard Cazaly as the offender."
That reference certainly isn't Eddie and doesn't sound like Keela to me.

honestbroker1
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:17 pm

From the official court citation from the trial of D'Andre Lane (convicted of the murder of his step-daughter, Bianca):

We reject Lane's argument that, because chemical evidence cannot corroborate whether there was decomposition at the locations Morse identified in this case, the evidence must be excluded as unreliable. Clearly, the four-part test adopted by this Court to ensure the reliability of tracking dog evidence does not exactly correlate to the use of cadaver dogs. However, cadaver dog evidence is not significantly different from other forms of tracking dog evidence. Tracking dogs and cadaver dogs both use a precise sense of smell to identify scents that are outside the range of human ability to detect. Scientific devices can no more follow the scent left on a piece of discarded clothing from the scene of a robbery to a person's home than they can identify the smell of decomposing human remains. Just as it is not a reason to exclude all tracking dog evidence, the lack of scientific verification of the presence of a specific scent is not a reason to exclude cadaver dog evidence in a blanket fashion. We conclude that the trial court must instead consider the reliability of the cadaver dog evidence in each case.

That is the law in the US State of Detroit:

In England, uncorroborated cadaver-dog alerts are inadmissible as evidence in court.

Beyond dispute, Grime, at Praia da Luz, issued an unwarranted opinion that Eddie had alerted to "cadaver-scent".

And the (I gather now late) blogger Steel Magnolia stated in one of his blogs that Grime had grumbled to a journalist (unnamed) that an English official (unnamed!) had leaned on him to write, in his reports, that no incriminating inference could be drawn from the reactions of the dogs.

Also beyond dispute is that, in Jersey, where Grime led a criminal investigation on a wild-goose chase for evidence of 'murder', Grime issued no such cavetat.

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:17 am

Continuing the occasional series of Grime-watch, I thought we might take a look at the role of Keela.

Keela, we know, was trained to react, alone, to human blood.

She was brought in because (Mark Harrison says) they were looking for Madeleine's blood, and her job was to look for it.

Unsurprisingly, then, everything sent to the FSS was reacted to by Keela.

It is a surprise, then, that the whole of John Lowe's report should be marked by one, almost complete, absence: use of the word blood.

I say almost complete. There is one exception, which I will cite an edit.

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain (286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found.

John Lowe's sole use of the word blood in his report.

Grime covers all his bases by insisting Keela could find blood in traces so minute they couldn't be detected in a laboratory.

John Lowe replied, diplomatically, to the claim that it is one on which they usually take the handler's word.

What other choice do they have?

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Carana
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by Carana » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:05 pm

HB, we know that LCN DNA testing can't determine the source substance. If there had been enough DNA present, then LCN DNA wouldn't have been used in the first place...
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:35 pm

Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:05 pm
HB, we know that LCN DNA testing can't determine the source substance. If there had been enough DNA present, then LCN DNA wouldn't have been used in the first place...
But what did Keela react to?

Lowe extracted enough material from the key-fob to determine that the DNA profile was from Gerry.

But what was the material?

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Carana
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by Carana » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm

honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:35 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:05 pm
HB, we know that LCN DNA testing can't determine the source substance. If there had been enough DNA present, then LCN DNA wouldn't have been used in the first place...
But what did Keela react to?

Lowe extracted enough material from the key-fob to determine that the DNA profile was from Gerry.

But what was the material?
If ever Grime was correct that she could react to a couple of molecules of blood, they could have belonged to anyone who'd touched that key card at some point.

Has it ever been established whether the GNR officer who drove the vehicle wore gloves? If so, were they a new pair of forensic ones?

All a bit pointless, IMO, ten years on. Op Grange and the PT investigation will have have come to their own conclusions as to the validity of those inspections many years ago.
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

honestbroker1
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:26 pm

Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:35 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:05 pm
HB, we know that LCN DNA testing can't determine the source substance. If there had been enough DNA present, then LCN DNA wouldn't have been used in the first place...
But what did Keela react to?

Lowe extracted enough material from the key-fob to determine that the DNA profile was from Gerry.

But what was the material?
If ever Grime was correct that she could react to a couple of molecules of blood, they could have belonged to anyone who'd touched that key card at some point.

Has it ever been established whether the GNR officer who drove the vehicle wore gloves? If so, were they a new pair of forensic ones?

All a bit pointless, IMO, ten years on. Op Grange and the PT investigation will have have come to their own conclusions as to the validity of those inspections many years ago.
I know Lowe says you can't determine the type of bodily fluid from LCN

But (for example) the key fob was not subjected to LCN analysis (for obvious reasons, nothing remotely incriminating about DNA evidence that Gerry drove the car). Still, Lowe could not determine (or did not say what) the material was that he extracted Gerry's DNA from.

Blood?

Or something else?

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Carana
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by Carana » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:42 pm

honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:26 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:35 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:05 pm
HB, we know that LCN DNA testing can't determine the source substance. If there had been enough DNA present, then LCN DNA wouldn't have been used in the first place...
But what did Keela react to?

Lowe extracted enough material from the key-fob to determine that the DNA profile was from Gerry.

But what was the material?
If ever Grime was correct that she could react to a couple of molecules of blood, they could have belonged to anyone who'd touched that key card at some point.

Has it ever been established whether the GNR officer who drove the vehicle wore gloves? If so, were they a new pair of forensic ones?

All a bit pointless, IMO, ten years on. Op Grange and the PT investigation will have have come to their own conclusions as to the validity of those inspections many years ago.
I know Lowe says you can't determine the type of bodily fluid from LCN

But (for example) the key fob was not subjected to LCN analysis (for obvious reasons, nothing remotely incriminating about DNA evidence that Gerry drove the car). Still, Lowe could not determine (or did not say what) the material was that he extracted Gerry's DNA from.

Blood?

Or something else?

No way of knowing...
A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)). This sample has not been sent for further testing using LCN DNA profiling tests.

Keela reacted to it, so it was sent off.

If there had been gobs of blood on it, then presumably it would have been noticed. As it was, there was just enough to determine that elements of Gerry's profile were present. It was a low level incomplete DNA profile... so presumably still not enough to determine the substance.
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:49 pm

Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:42 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:26 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:35 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:05 pm
HB, we know that LCN DNA testing can't determine the source substance. If there had been enough DNA present, then LCN DNA wouldn't have been used in the first place...
But what did Keela react to?

Lowe extracted enough material from the key-fob to determine that the DNA profile was from Gerry.

But what was the material?
If ever Grime was correct that she could react to a couple of molecules of blood, they could have belonged to anyone who'd touched that key card at some point.

Has it ever been established whether the GNR officer who drove the vehicle wore gloves? If so, were they a new pair of forensic ones?

All a bit pointless, IMO, ten years on. Op Grange and the PT investigation will have have come to their own conclusions as to the validity of those inspections many years ago.
I know Lowe says you can't determine the type of bodily fluid from LCN

But (for example) the key fob was not subjected to LCN analysis (for obvious reasons, nothing remotely incriminating about DNA evidence that Gerry drove the car). Still, Lowe could not determine (or did not say what) the material was that he extracted Gerry's DNA from.

Blood?

Or something else?

No way of knowing...
A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)). This sample has not been sent for further testing using LCN DNA profiling tests.

Keela reacted to it, so it was sent off.

If there had been gobs of blood on it, then presumably it would have been noticed. As it was, there was just enough to determine that elements of Gerry's profile were present. It was a low level incomplete DNA profile... so presumably still not enough to determine the substance.
So we take the handler's word that the dog can detect blood in traces slighter, even, than can be detected in a laboratory?

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Carana
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by Carana » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:44 pm

honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:49 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:42 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:26 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:35 pm


But what did Keela react to?

Lowe extracted enough material from the key-fob to determine that the DNA profile was from Gerry.

But what was the material?
If ever Grime was correct that she could react to a couple of molecules of blood, they could have belonged to anyone who'd touched that key card at some point.

Has it ever been established whether the GNR officer who drove the vehicle wore gloves? If so, were they a new pair of forensic ones?

All a bit pointless, IMO, ten years on. Op Grange and the PT investigation will have have come to their own conclusions as to the validity of those inspections many years ago.
I know Lowe says you can't determine the type of bodily fluid from LCN

But (for example) the key fob was not subjected to LCN analysis (for obvious reasons, nothing remotely incriminating about DNA evidence that Gerry drove the car). Still, Lowe could not determine (or did not say what) the material was that he extracted Gerry's DNA from.

Blood?

Or something else?

No way of knowing...
A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)). This sample has not been sent for further testing using LCN DNA profiling tests.

Keela reacted to it, so it was sent off.

If there had been gobs of blood on it, then presumably it would have been noticed. As it was, there was just enough to determine that elements of Gerry's profile were present. It was a low level incomplete DNA profile... so presumably still not enough to determine the substance.
So we take the handler's word that the dog can detect blood in traces slighter, even, than can be detected in a laboratory?
Whether Keela can - or could - I don't see the interest in pursuing it yet again 10 years on. It seems possible that someone else could have left a molecule or two even years before the disappearance, but any DNA could have got wiped off by the very nature of the object being a key card used by multiple people (including those involved in the manufacture).

The few bits of DNA on the key card coincided with those in Gerry's profile.
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

honestbroker1
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:44 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:49 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:42 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:26 pm
Carana wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm


If ever Grime was correct that she could react to a couple of molecules of blood, they could have belonged to anyone who'd touched that key card at some point.

Has it ever been established whether the GNR officer who drove the vehicle wore gloves? If so, were they a new pair of forensic ones?

All a bit pointless, IMO, ten years on. Op Grange and the PT investigation will have have come to their own conclusions as to the validity of those inspections many years ago.
I know Lowe says you can't determine the type of bodily fluid from LCN

But (for example) the key fob was not subjected to LCN analysis (for obvious reasons, nothing remotely incriminating about DNA evidence that Gerry drove the car). Still, Lowe could not determine (or did not say what) the material was that he extracted Gerry's DNA from.

Blood?

Or something else?

No way of knowing...
A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)). This sample has not been sent for further testing using LCN DNA profiling tests.

Keela reacted to it, so it was sent off.

If there had been gobs of blood on it, then presumably it would have been noticed. As it was, there was just enough to determine that elements of Gerry's profile were present. It was a low level incomplete DNA profile... so presumably still not enough to determine the substance.
So we take the handler's word that the dog can detect blood in traces slighter, even, than can be detected in a laboratory?
Whether Keela can - or could - I don't see the interest in pursuing it yet again 10 years on. It seems possible that someone else could have left a molecule or two even years before the disappearance, but any DNA could have got wiped off by the very nature of the object being a key card used by multiple people (including those involved in the manufacture).

The few bits of DNA on the key card coincided with those in Gerry's profile.
Grime was a ( edited by a Mod)

For me, there is more than academic interest in establishing the extent of his dishonest presentation of his dogs.

During his time at South Yorkshire Police, Grime went to America (without dogs) to discuss Keela, and lied to the press at the time that he was taking Keela over to assist the FBI in two murder enquiries.

I gather from a reliable anecdotal source that he actually went across to discuss Keela and her training with the Americans, who had taken an interest in the dog. My friend tells me the Americans were politely underwhelmed by Grime had to say.

Grime returned to England and pulled the wool over the eyes of someone in a PDR that he had taken Eddie over to be trained on human remains.

At SYP, Keela's handler was Ellis.

Ownership of the dog was transferred from Ellis to Grime and (certainly Grime!) left the service with both dogs.

That SYP should have parted company with Eddie was, perhaps, not such a surprise as he was, then, quite old (7).

But Keela was less than half Eddie's age and still in her prime.

SYP evidently felt they had no use for her services.
On scent of success: sniffer dog Keela earns more than her Chief Constable Timesonline

By Karen McVeigh
December 30, 2005

HER detective work is unsurpassed, her dedication to duty during some of Britain’s most challenging murder cases unfailing.

Keela, a 16-month-old springer spaniel, has become such an asset to South Yorkshire Police that she now earns more than the chief constable.

Her sense of smell, so keen that she can sniff traces of blood on weapons that have been scrubbed after attacks, has her so much in demand by forces up and down the country that she is hired out at £530 a day, plus expenses.

Thought to be the only one of her kind, the crime scenes dog earns nearly £200,000 a year. Her daily rate, ten times that of ordinary police dogs, puts her on more than the chief constable, Meredydd Hughes, who picks up £129,963.

Keela's considerable talent in uncovering minute pieces of evidence that can later be confirmed by forensic tests has put her in the forefront of detective work across Britain. She was drafted in to help after the stabbing of the young mother, Abigail Witchalls, in Surrey, and has been involved in high- profile cases across 17 forces, from Devon and Cornwall to Strathclyde.

She has already helped to apprehend a murderer after sniffing out blood on a knife.

PC John Ellis, her handler, said that police sent for Keela when the scenes of crime squad failed to find what they were looking for. "She can detect minute quantities of blood that cannot be seen with the human eye," he said. "She is used at scenes where someone has tried to clean it up. If blood has seeped into the tiles behind a bath where a body has been, she can find it."

The spaniel can sniff out blood in clothes after they have been washed repeatedly in biological washing powder, and can detect microscopic amounts on weapons that have been scrubbed and washed.

When faced with a "clean" crime scene, Mr Ellis and PC Martin Grimes, Keela's other handler, will first send in Frankie, a border collie, and Eddie, another springer spaniel, to pick up any general scent. Then they wheel in the big gun.

"We take Keela in and she will find the minutest traces of blood," Mr Ellis said. "It's not like looking for a needle in a haystack any more. The other two dogs will find the haystack and Keela will find the needle."

While the other dogs bark, Keela has been trained to freeze and pinpoint the area with her nose.

Mr Ellis said Keela's "perfect temperament" and enthusiasm made her a great asset. "We thought we would get one or two deployments a year, but things have just snowballed. Obviously when we are called in by other forces they are charged a fee and it's quite funny to think she can earn more than the chief constable."

Mr Hughes showed there were no hard feelings. The chief constable said: "Keela's training gives the force an edge when it comes to forensic investigation which we should recognise and use more often."

Mr Ellis and Mr Grimes came up with a special training regime to focus on Keela's remarkable skills. It has proved so successful that the FBI has inquired about it. "The FBI is very interested in how we work because they don't have this sort of facility in-house and they are looking at setting up their own unit," Mr Ellis said.

Paul Ruffell, of K9 Solutions, a security firm specialising in dog units, said he was amazed at Keela's abilities. "I've been working in this business for 25 years and I've never heard anything like it," he said.

ANIMAL MAGIC

£200,000 DOG

Keela crime scene investigation dog, South Yorkshire Police

Pay none. Charges £530 a day plus expenses for services. Earned almost £200,000 last year

Career joined South Yorkshire Police in 2003 at 12 weeks. Came originally from West Midlands Police, from a large litter. Period of training lasted a few months

Hobbies chasing her tail and eating

£129,000 MAN

Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire

Pay £129,963 a year

Career joined North Wales Constabulary, 1979. Promoted to Superintendent in West Yorkshire Police in 1995 and Assistant Chief Constable in Greater Manchester, 1999

Hobbies rock climbing, mountainbiking and mountaineering

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by Carana » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:15 am

honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:31 am
The claim of Keela's involvement in the Abigail Witchal investigation comes, not in Grime's profile, but from the press:
Keela is a top dog in the police world, earning more in a day than her force's Chief Constable by working on some of the country's highest-profile crimes.
Keela, The pride of South Yorkshire
The pride of South Yorkshire

The 16-month-old springer spaniel can sniff out the smallest samples of human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.

The South Yorkshire Police dog has already helped forces across the country, including working on the stabbing of Abigail Witchalls in Surrey.

Her going rate is £530 per day, plus expenses.

If she worked every day of the year, she would earn almost £200,000 - around £70,000 more than her force's Chief Constable.

In the New Year, Keela will be travelling to America to assist the FBI with two murder inquiries.

A South Yorkshire force spokeswoman said the crime scene investigation dog has saved more then £200,000 nationally since April this year, helping with investigations in Ireland, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Surrey and the Thames Valley areas.

Her handler, PC Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year.

Unlike ordinary police dogs, Keela has never taken part in the usual six-week training course but has been trained, bit by bit, by PC Grime every day.

Her programme involved training her to ignore decomposing body materials other than human blood.

Instead of barking when she smells blood, she has been trained to have a "passive" alert - freezing with her nose as near to the subject matter as possible without touching, to enable scientists to recover the sample quickly and efficiently.

This technique has saved time and money on major investigations.

South Yorkshire Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes said: "Keela's training gives the force an edge when it comes to forensic investigation, which we should recognise and use more often.

"We know we have an operationally excellent dog section, and our specialist dogs are being developed in a unique way."
Abigail Witchals (thank goodness!) survived the vicious attack to which she was subjected, and, at least in theory, blood may have played a role in convicting her attacker had he not committed suicide before being brought to trial.

However, from contemporaneous accounts of the investigation, dogs used in that investigation were of the type that track the scents of living humans.

Abigail Witchalls was left paralysed after being stabbed in the neck as she pushed her toddler son in his buggy near her home in Little Bookham, Surrey, on 20 April in an attack that shocked the nation.
The attack, in one of Britain's lowest crime areas, sparked a massive police operation and drew intense media attention.
BBC News outlines a chronological timeline of the hunt for her attacker:

20 April 2005 - Mrs Witchalls, 26, is stabbed in the neck at a lane off Burnhams Road, Little Bookham. Her 21-month-old son, Joseph, witnesses the attack.

A neighbour summons help after finding her bleeding from her horrific injury but she is left paralysed and unable to speak.

21 April 2005 - Police release details of the attack to the press and make a public appeal for help to catch the perpetrator.

22 April - Police appeal for help tracing a man and woman seen speeding near the crime scene in a blue Peugeot car.

Abigail Witchalls with her husband and son by her bedside
Mrs Witchalls communicated with police from her hospital bed
A 28-year-old man and 29-year-old woman come forward voluntarily and are arrested.

23 April - Mrs Witchalls' father, Martin Hollins, speaks of the "tremendous shock" of what has happened.

24 April - Police free the woman arrested on 22 April without charge and eliminate her from their inquiry. The man is freed on police bail and is later ruled out as a suspect.

25 April - Still unable to talk, Mrs Witchalls gives a statement to police from her hospital bed at St George's Hospital in Tooting, south London, by mouthing "yes" and "no" answers.

26 April - Using the same method, Mrs Witchalls describes the attacker and details her ordeal to police. She tells them she saw the man driving a blue estate car.

27 April - A 25-year-old man is arrested in Croydon, south London, in connection with the attack.

29 April - The man arrested in Croydon is released pending further forensic enquiries but police say a huge leap forward has been made.

2 May - Police reveal they have compiled a list of 32 suspects following 700 calls by members of the public. But they face a two-week wait for the result of forensic tests.

4 May - Mrs Witchalls is transferred to a special spinal injuries unit at the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital in Stanmore, north west London.

A police officer patrols the scene of the stabbing
The scene of the stabbing was sealed off by police
9 May - Mrs Witchalls' elderly grandmother, Monica Kelly, dies suddenly - she is said to be "devastated".

12 May - 23-year-old garden centre worker Richard Cazaly, who lived within 200 yards of the attack scene, apparently commits suicide in Scotland.

Police reveal him to have been a suspect in the case and say DNA tests are being carried out.

They refuse to reveal the contents of an apparent suicide note left by Mr Cazaly but confirm they are examining his blue Volvo car and say officers are travelling to Australia to interview his former girlfriend.

13 May - Police say they are examining knives found in Mr Cazaly's car.

18 May - Mrs Witchalls makes a statement about her improving physical condition, saying she can now breathe on her own and talk for short periods.

She still cannot move her arms or legs but says feeling is returning to her body.

Her husband, Benoit, speaks publicly for the first time on the BBC's Crimewatch programme, following a reconstruction of the attack on his wife and a public appeal.

He insists he and his wife bear no anger towards the knifeman but says whoever it is needs help and that it would be "a tragedy" if he attacked again.

19 May - Police say members of the public came forward with two important leads following the Crimewatch appeal.

It is hoped one caller may be able to help trace two men seen stoking a bonfire who may be important witnesses.

Another may have witnessed the attacker running from the scene.

31 May - Surrey Police bring in specialist tracker dogs that can detect weeks-old smells to search the area of the attack.

Police say the latest searches follow the receipt of new information and are for "outstanding evidence", including the weapon used by the attacker.

12 June - The unborn baby of Abigail Witchalls is developing normally and doing well, the hospital treating her reveals.

30 June - Mrs Witchalls regains movement after initially being left paralysed.

She can now eat, speak, move her arm and hand and sit in a wheelchair.

The orthopaedic hospital treating her says she is recovering "in small but important ways".

3 August - Police hand over a dossier of evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS).

Surrey Police had been investigating Richard Cazaly but a spokeswoman would not comment on the contents of the file.

3 November - More the six months after she was first admitted, Abigail Witchalls is discharged from hospital.

She will continue to need ongoing therapy and nursing care.

11 November - Abigail Witchalls gives birth to a baby son. He is born weighing 5lbs 6oz on Friday afternoon at St George's Hospital in Tooting, south London.

22 November - The CPS announces Richard Cazaly would have faced criminal charges over the stabbing if he had not been dead.

Det Supt Adrian Harper of Surrey Police says: "The investigation is concluded. All the evidence points to Richard Cazaly as the offender."
That reference certainly isn't Eddie and doesn't sound like Keela to me.
Why can't that dog have been Eddie?

ETA: ok, rereading that, the female dog mentioned first can't have been Eddie - it does sound like Keela. But then later, it mentions "dogs" in the plural.
Last edited by Carana on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:19 am

Carana wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:15 am
honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:31 am
The claim of Keela's involvement in the Abigail Witchal investigation comes, not in Grime's profile, but from the press:
Keela is a top dog in the police world, earning more in a day than her force's Chief Constable by working on some of the country's highest-profile crimes.
Keela, The pride of South Yorkshire
The pride of South Yorkshire

The 16-month-old springer spaniel can sniff out the smallest samples of human blood - even after items have been cleaned or washed many times.

The South Yorkshire Police dog has already helped forces across the country, including working on the stabbing of Abigail Witchalls in Surrey.

Her going rate is £530 per day, plus expenses.

If she worked every day of the year, she would earn almost £200,000 - around £70,000 more than her force's Chief Constable.

In the New Year, Keela will be travelling to America to assist the FBI with two murder inquiries.

A South Yorkshire force spokeswoman said the crime scene investigation dog has saved more then £200,000 nationally since April this year, helping with investigations in Ireland, Cornwall, Wiltshire, Surrey and the Thames Valley areas.

Her handler, PC Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year.

Unlike ordinary police dogs, Keela has never taken part in the usual six-week training course but has been trained, bit by bit, by PC Grime every day.

Her programme involved training her to ignore decomposing body materials other than human blood.

Instead of barking when she smells blood, she has been trained to have a "passive" alert - freezing with her nose as near to the subject matter as possible without touching, to enable scientists to recover the sample quickly and efficiently.

This technique has saved time and money on major investigations.

South Yorkshire Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes said: "Keela's training gives the force an edge when it comes to forensic investigation, which we should recognise and use more often.

"We know we have an operationally excellent dog section, and our specialist dogs are being developed in a unique way."
Abigail Witchals (thank goodness!) survived the vicious attack to which she was subjected, and, at least in theory, blood may have played a role in convicting her attacker had he not committed suicide before being brought to trial.

However, from contemporaneous accounts of the investigation, dogs used in that investigation were of the type that track the scents of living humans.

Abigail Witchalls was left paralysed after being stabbed in the neck as she pushed her toddler son in his buggy near her home in Little Bookham, Surrey, on 20 April in an attack that shocked the nation.
The attack, in one of Britain's lowest crime areas, sparked a massive police operation and drew intense media attention.
BBC News outlines a chronological timeline of the hunt for her attacker:

20 April 2005 - Mrs Witchalls, 26, is stabbed in the neck at a lane off Burnhams Road, Little Bookham. Her 21-month-old son, Joseph, witnesses the attack.

A neighbour summons help after finding her bleeding from her horrific injury but she is left paralysed and unable to speak.

21 April 2005 - Police release details of the attack to the press and make a public appeal for help to catch the perpetrator.

22 April - Police appeal for help tracing a man and woman seen speeding near the crime scene in a blue Peugeot car.

Abigail Witchalls with her husband and son by her bedside
Mrs Witchalls communicated with police from her hospital bed
A 28-year-old man and 29-year-old woman come forward voluntarily and are arrested.

23 April - Mrs Witchalls' father, Martin Hollins, speaks of the "tremendous shock" of what has happened.

24 April - Police free the woman arrested on 22 April without charge and eliminate her from their inquiry. The man is freed on police bail and is later ruled out as a suspect.

25 April - Still unable to talk, Mrs Witchalls gives a statement to police from her hospital bed at St George's Hospital in Tooting, south London, by mouthing "yes" and "no" answers.

26 April - Using the same method, Mrs Witchalls describes the attacker and details her ordeal to police. She tells them she saw the man driving a blue estate car.

27 April - A 25-year-old man is arrested in Croydon, south London, in connection with the attack.

29 April - The man arrested in Croydon is released pending further forensic enquiries but police say a huge leap forward has been made.

2 May - Police reveal they have compiled a list of 32 suspects following 700 calls by members of the public. But they face a two-week wait for the result of forensic tests.

4 May - Mrs Witchalls is transferred to a special spinal injuries unit at the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital in Stanmore, north west London.

A police officer patrols the scene of the stabbing
The scene of the stabbing was sealed off by police
9 May - Mrs Witchalls' elderly grandmother, Monica Kelly, dies suddenly - she is said to be "devastated".

12 May - 23-year-old garden centre worker Richard Cazaly, who lived within 200 yards of the attack scene, apparently commits suicide in Scotland.

Police reveal him to have been a suspect in the case and say DNA tests are being carried out.

They refuse to reveal the contents of an apparent suicide note left by Mr Cazaly but confirm they are examining his blue Volvo car and say officers are travelling to Australia to interview his former girlfriend.

13 May - Police say they are examining knives found in Mr Cazaly's car.

18 May - Mrs Witchalls makes a statement about her improving physical condition, saying she can now breathe on her own and talk for short periods.

She still cannot move her arms or legs but says feeling is returning to her body.

Her husband, Benoit, speaks publicly for the first time on the BBC's Crimewatch programme, following a reconstruction of the attack on his wife and a public appeal.

He insists he and his wife bear no anger towards the knifeman but says whoever it is needs help and that it would be "a tragedy" if he attacked again.

19 May - Police say members of the public came forward with two important leads following the Crimewatch appeal.

It is hoped one caller may be able to help trace two men seen stoking a bonfire who may be important witnesses.

Another may have witnessed the attacker running from the scene.

31 May - Surrey Police bring in specialist tracker dogs that can detect weeks-old smells to search the area of the attack.

Police say the latest searches follow the receipt of new information and are for "outstanding evidence", including the weapon used by the attacker.

12 June - The unborn baby of Abigail Witchalls is developing normally and doing well, the hospital treating her reveals.

30 June - Mrs Witchalls regains movement after initially being left paralysed.

She can now eat, speak, move her arm and hand and sit in a wheelchair.

The orthopaedic hospital treating her says she is recovering "in small but important ways".

3 August - Police hand over a dossier of evidence to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS).

Surrey Police had been investigating Richard Cazaly but a spokeswoman would not comment on the contents of the file.

3 November - More the six months after she was first admitted, Abigail Witchalls is discharged from hospital.

She will continue to need ongoing therapy and nursing care.

11 November - Abigail Witchalls gives birth to a baby son. He is born weighing 5lbs 6oz on Friday afternoon at St George's Hospital in Tooting, south London.

22 November - The CPS announces Richard Cazaly would have faced criminal charges over the stabbing if he had not been dead.

Det Supt Adrian Harper of Surrey Police says: "The investigation is concluded. All the evidence points to Richard Cazaly as the offender."
That reference certainly isn't Eddie and doesn't sound like Keela to me.
Why can't that dog have been Eddie?
Abigail Witchalls (thank goodness!) is still alive.


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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by Carana » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:41 am

honestbroker1 wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Grime was a (edited by a Mod)

For me, there is more than academic interest in establishing the extent of his dishonest presentation of his dogs.

During his time at South Yorkshire Police, Grime went to America (without dogs) to discuss Keela, and lied to the press at the time that he was taking Keela over to assist the FBI in two murder enquiries.

I gather from a reliable anecdotal source that he actually went across to discuss Keela and her training with the Americans, who had taken an interest in the dog. My friend tells me the Americans were politely underwhelmed by Grime had to say.

Grime returned to England and pulled the wool over the eyes of someone in a PDR that he had taken Eddie over to be trained on human remains.

At SYP, Keela's handler was Ellis.

Ownership of the dog was transferred from Ellis to Grime and (certainly Grime!) left the service with both dogs.

That SYP should have parted company with Eddie was, perhaps, not such a surprise as he was, then, quite old (7).

But Keela was less than half Eddie's age and still in her prime.

SYP evidently felt they had no use for her services.
We've argued about this for literally years, HB. :s_biggrin

Seriously, I haven't found anything concrete to support your assertion that he didn't take the dogs with him. It seems perfectly plausible to me that he did, even if he used some holiday time to spend a short stint at the Body Farm.

It's not clear to me why Grime was able to keep Keela, but I've read varying explanations on what happens to dogs if their handler retires. Policy may vary from force to force.

West Mercia decided to keep a dog that was apparently still in her prime, but this may not be nationwide policy.

https://www.westmercia.police.uk/articl ... y---Update
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Carana
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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by Carana » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:44 am

Poor Abigail.

But I don't see your point. Her awful ordeal took place in 2005.
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:59 am

Carana wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:44 am
Poor Abigail.

But I don't see your point. Her awful ordeal took place in 2005.
You asked why the dog couldn't have been Edddie.

The Abail Witchalls investigation was not a murder enquiry.

There was no body to find.

While blood does seem to have been key to finding Abigail's attacker, I don't think that was difficult to find, either.

At most, Keela might have been put on stand-by for possible involvement in the investigation.

But I don't see what role there would have been for her.

And, of course, Keela's handler was Ellis.

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:18 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4597789.stm
"[The dogs] can work through brush and undergrowth and the scent still permeates from those areas," says Mark Harrison, a national police search adviser involved in the case.

Sgt John Cod, of Dyfed Powys police, says its two dogs - a German and Belgium Shepherd - will comb areas outlined by Surrey police, looking for body fluids.

They will be accompanied by a Border Collie and a Springer Spaniel from South Yorkshire; the springer is specifically trained to sniff out human blood.
So, whether she was actually used, I'm not too sure.

But Keela was certainly on stand-by for use in the investigation.

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:17 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mbles.html
Grime made a presentation, showing him [Harper] a video of the dog finding the "scent of death" in Kate and Gerry McCann's car,' the detective said.

They were still formal suspects and the case had got worldwide publicity. It seemed to get Lenny very excited. I think Grime kind of bewitched him.'
Grime, handed the video of the inspection at Haut de la Garenne for private and promotional use and, with the veil of secrecy, at the time, still on the Madeleine investigation, used it to promote himself when he applied for the position at Haut de la Garenne.

For the inspection of vehicles, alone of all inspections at Praia da Luz, Grime wore a haz-mat suit.

One of these:

https://www.protectivemasksdirect.co.uk ... gJq3_D_BwE

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:40 pm

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mi-court-of- ... 83760.html
At trial, FBI Canine Program Manager Rex Stockham testified as an expert in forensic canine operation. Stockham testified about the process of training and testing victim recovery dogs. Stockham's protocol called for regular single-and double-blind testing of dogs throughout their working lives. Stockham's program had three full-time handlers in its program, including Martin Grime. Stockham testified that he had tested Morse and Keela, Grime's dogs, and that both dogs had accuracy ratings in the high 90 percent range. Stockham testified that dogs have been able to smell the odor of decomposition as soon as 2 hours after a victim's death, or years after a victim's burial.

Grime testified as an expert in the training and employment of cadaver dogs. According to Grime, he is a full-time contractor for the FBI. Grime worked with Morse, a dog “trained to search for and detect the odor of decomposing human remains,” and Keela, “trained to search for and locate specifically human blood.” Grime testified that there was no methodology to test the dogs' responses when there is no recoverable material, and that the odor of decomposition may transfer if a person touches a dead body and then touches something else.

According to Grime, on December 4, 2011, he took his dogs to an enclosed warehouse that contained 31 vehicles. Grime was told that Bianca was in one of the vehicles at the time of the carjacking, but was not told which vehicle was involved. Morse alerted Grime to the presence of the odor of decomposition in the back seat and trunk of a silver Grand Marquis. Keela later screened the car and did not alert Grime to the presence of human blood.

Grime testified that, after the vehicle screening, he took the dogs to an administrative building to screen the items removed from Dungey's car. Grime did not know where the objects were located in the building, and the objects had been placed in a room filled with “all sorts of things.” Morse alerted Grime to the odor of decomposition in Bianca's car seat and a bag containing Bianca's blanket. Grime later took the dogs to Dungey's house. Morse alerted him to the odor of decomposition in a room that contained bunk beds and a closet without a door.
Spot the parallels with Praia da Luz.

They don't stop at a line-up of cars (much longer in Detroit than at Praia da Luz).

Also a replication of the modus oprandi of testing stuff in one place, taking somehwere else, and testing it a second time.

Spooky.

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:38 pm

Keela later screened the car and did not alert Grime to the presence of human blood.
(From the court citation above).

That proves (I think) what I have always insisted. Morse's reaction was accepted as incriminating evidence even though no blood was found.

Morse was, not so much desensitised to blood, as just not sensitised to it.

If you want a dog to react to blood -- as a discrete scent -- you must introduce the dog to blood as a discrete scent and reward the dog for reacting.

If you don't, simply skip that step and the dog won't.

Also, a (hitherto!) infallible rule of the Universe has just tumbled: a woman is always right

:s_tongue

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Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:21 pm

3 minutes and 17 seconds in, Grime insists 'human remains' were found at Haut de la Garenne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSD2VfDRWIE

Let's see what the (separate) investigation of the Wiltshire Police Force (Operation Havern) found ....
5.5 Media coverage after 23 February 2008
5.5.1 In our view, if the initial media release of the 23 February 2008
prompted the media to ‘descend’ upon Jersey, then the subsequent

conferences led by DCO HARPER with Haut de la Garenne as the
backdrop only encouraged their continued presence and the
developing media frenzy.
5.5.2 This period was crucial in the overall management of Operation
Rectangle. Whilst the initial release confirming the ‘potential remains

Page 232 of 383


Media Highly Confidential – Personal Information
of a child’ has been subject to much criticism, it was the subsequent
speculation in the national media that exacerbated the problem.
5.5.3 There is no doubt, in our view, that the States of Jersey Police was

misquoted on a number of occasions. CO POWER and exDCO
HARPER will contend that they did attempt to correct these
mistakes. However, the lack of media strategy or strategic oversight

from CO POWER made this task much more difficult. The absence of

strategy created the environment in which misquotation was more
likely. The total number of media releases made by the States of
Jersey Police and the coverage of the national and international press

is too large to detail within the body of this Report and is included
within the appended Evidential Bundle. However, comment will be

made here on a number of significant States of Jersey Police releases

that are, in our view, representative in tone and content of those
which we say merit criticism of CO POWER’s handling of this aspect
of Operation Rectangle during this period.

5.5.4 An early press release following the initial announcement on
23 February 2008, changes wording from ‘potential’ to ‘partial’ with

respect to the ‘remains of child’. A press conference led by

DCO HARPER later the same day referred to the ‘partial remains’.

This was seized upon by the media from the outset; the BBC News on

the evening of 23 February 2008 pictured DCO HARPER explaining
‘in addition to the ‘partial’ remains, we found a number of other items

of clothing and bits and pieces, nothing major, but, again, which tends

to corroborate the fact that there may be a number of items there’.

5.5.5This small but very significant change of wording inevitably created
the impression amongst listeners that the ‘find’ of 23 February 2008
was in fact the remains of a child, albeit only partial. ‘Potential’ at
least left the situation open to review and clarification. Later that day,

the BBC website reported that ‘parts of a child’s body have been
found by police in a former children’s home in Jersey. Police believe

more bodies may be found at Haut de la Garenne’.


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5.5.6 The progression from’ potential’ to ‘partial’ to’ parts’ occurred within
hours and this distortion continued over the next few days. The News
of the World, Sunday, 24 February 2008, reported ‘Police have found
a child’s skull in a secret dig for a group of lost children feared

murdered’.

5.5.7 The Sunday Times referred to ‘parts of a child’s skeleton’ and the
Observer even provided the gender of the skeleton with the quote
‘believed to be a girl’s remains’.

5.5.8 With the exception of the leap to the assumption they were the
remains of a girl, none of the above is an outrageous distortion of the
first impression created by the initial announcements of
DCO HARPER. However, two days later the States of Jersey Police
did attempt to correct the misrepresentation of the facts by stating on
their website ‘The States of Jersey Police would like to emphasise
that all that has been recovered so far from the site are the partial
remains of what is believed to have been a child’. This ‘clarification’
actually compounds the misrepresentation.

5.5.9 Whilst some effort had been made to reduce the speculation and rein
in some of the media coverage, the continued reference to ‘partial’ did
nothing to alleviate the exaggeration of the facts. The presumption of

dead children was, by now, firmly embedded in the public’s mind.
The States of Jersey Police failed to make clear that what had
ultimately been found was a very small item which had not yet been
fully examined or definitely identified.

5.5.10 From the outset, CO POWER was asked questions about the
releases and what was being reported in the media. An e-mail
exchange on 25 February 2008, between Senator Sarah FERGUSON
and Senator Wendy KINNARD, outlines the former’s concerns.
CO POWER responded to Senator KINNARD, describing the
differences in the media reporting to that released by the States of
Jersey Police: 'Wendy, TEXT REDACTED

I suggest you keep it simple and general.
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There are reports that we believe that there are xxx hidden bodies.
What we actually say is that there are a number of locations where
scientific readings indicate that there is a need to explore further.
That is a different thing (to anyone who is actually listening that is)’.
5.5.11 It is not unreasonable to conclude, even at this early stage, that these
enquiries from politicians were an indication of the reaction to what

had been released and should have prompted action from
CO POWER to set the record straight and to ensure that

DCO HARPER was being appropriately supervised to eliminate the
risk of matters escalating unreasonably. It appears to this Inquiry,

that CO POWER’s above e-mail was dismissive and complacent in
tone.

honestbroker1
Posts: 7145
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Grime-watch ....

Post by honestbroker1 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:34 pm

Confirmation that the 'child's skull' was, in fact, a piece of coconut:
5.6.18 The letter (see paragraph 5.6.11) from the Oxford laboratory was
prepared on 1 May 2008 addressed to DCO HARPER and states ‘This
letter summarises the work we have undertaken concerning the
analysis of material related to the above enquiry. In March 2008 the
Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit (ORAU) was sent material from
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the States of Jersey Police for AMS radiocarbon dating. The sample
was formally identified as bone, probably from the skullcap of an
infant, by X , a forensic archaeologist working for the
Jersey police. We received the sample from X (Forensic
Services Manager, States of Jersey Police).
5.6.19 The sample was logged into the ORAU system in the usual manner
and, as in all cases, a sample of bone powder was drilled from the
underside of the specimen using a tungsten carbide drill. The powder
weighed 440 mg. The technician performing this procedure noted that
the material did not behave as bone ordinarily would and did not have
the texture that normal bone exhibits. The technician has a great deal
of experience in the sampling of bone (almost 30 years). Because of
this uncertainty, and as a precaution, a small amount of the sample
was combusted to measure the % nitrogen remaining. % N is a good
correlate for protein, which is dominated in bone by collagen, and the
measurement of nitrogen offers a simple test concerning whether the
sample is dateable or not. Low % N means that the material is
essentially un-dateable using radiocarbon.
5.6.20 X (ORAU) reported that the Jersey sample only had
0.6 % N. Ordinarily this is too low to yield extractable collagen of any
quality. Despite our concerns, X requested that a fuller
chemical treatment be undertaken, in an attempt to produce a
result, but although some material was extracted it was demonstrably
not collagenous based on the analysis of the texture of the material,
the C:N atomic ratios and the similarly significant lack of nitrogen, so
the sample was formally failed and the States of Jersey Police notified.
5.6.21 A further analysis of the bone sample later the following week by
X and X (British Museum faunal specialist
and one of our collaborators in work undertaken in the ORAU)
concluded that the sample was not in fact bone, but was almost
certainly wood.
It seemed surprising to us that the material could be
so confidently identified by X , and particularly that it could
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be determined to be an infant specimen. We informed X of
our concerns shortly afterwards, by phone and e-mail. We stand by our
original assessment. We suggest that the curvature of the material
may have had something to do with the misidentification. We
think it appears to be more like part of a large seed casing, or part of
something like a small piece of coconut. Certainly, the density of the
material is most unlike bone, it is too light.
Our conclusion is that this
sample is: a) not bone and b) not human. We are very surprised that
the forensic archaeologist could be so confident and differ in X
identification. We suggested at the time that a further opinion would be
required, but this not considered by X . A further
analysis of the bone structure under a suitable microscope would
confirm the situation rapidly.

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