Covid in Scotland

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jjbd
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Covid in Scotland

Post by jjbd » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:32 pm

Nicola Sturgeon has unveiled a ban on indoor drinking in licensed premises across the whole of Scotland for 16 days, while all pubs and restaurants across the central belt are to be closed. The restrictions are part of new measures aimed at tackling a surge in coronavirus cases.

Can I get a still buy a pint in Scotland?

The two-week restrictions apply nationwide, with tougher measures for five health board areas in central Scotland that account for three-quarters of positive tests. In areas outside central Scotland, you can still buy alcohol to drink outdoors up to the 10pm curfew, but pubs, bars, restaurants and cafes will only be able to operate indoors on a restricted daytime basis, from 6am to 6pm, for the service of food and non-alcoholic drinks.
Stupid plan by Sturgeon it will affect every pub and restaurant in my local town and my local Indian has already decided to close.

Hospitality is such an important part of jobs and income in Scotland and all businesses are struggling to keep going - she has made a terrible mistake.

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honestbroker1
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by honestbroker1 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:55 pm

I had absolutely no idea you are Scottish, JJBD.

jjbd
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by jjbd » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:22 pm

honestbroker1 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:55 pm
I had absolutely no idea you are Scottish, JJBD.
I am not Scottish - I live in Scotland.

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honestbroker1
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by honestbroker1 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:14 pm

jjbd wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:22 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:55 pm
I had absolutely no idea you are Scottish, JJBD.
I am not Scottish - I live in Scotland.
Ah.

My apologies.

jjbd
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by jjbd » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:09 pm

Image

sal
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by sal » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:07 pm

Great selfie jj :s_wink
Rogério Alves says claims made by Gonçalo Amaral are a 'waste of time'

jjbd
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by jjbd » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:44 pm

sal wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:07 pm
Great selfie jj :s_wink
lol

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honestbroker1
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by honestbroker1 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:21 pm

Cafes in Scotland to stay open:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54466992

Testing ....

testing

More from The Telegraph:
Nicola Sturgeon’s hospitality shutdown has descended into chaos hours before it is due to come into force after her government failed to define which eateries were able to stay open if they stopped serving alcohol.

The First Minister offered a last-minute reprieve to licensed cafes in the Central Belt on Thursday, saying they could stay open if they did not sell alcoholic drinks, but failed to define which outlets would be deemed 'cafes', 'restaurants' or 'bars'.

This prompted confusion across the industry, with desperate business owners questioning whether their outlets were cafes and allowed to stay open or restaurants and therefore must shut for 16 days at 6pm this evening. Pub owners serving food also questioned why the exemption could not be extended to them if they operated on a dry basis.

The confusion deepened on Thursday night after Jason Leitch, Scotland's national clinical director, said it would be up to council environmental health officers to decide and enforce the rules, contradicting Ms Sturgeon's statement only hours earlier when she said a "specific exemption" for cafes would be set out in regulations.
However, the prospect of a further lockdown was branded “unacceptable” by business leaders, who warned that it would take the economy “back to square one”.

A move to “keep switching the lights of the economy on and off” would risk not just jobs but the wellbeing of entire communities, the Scottish Chambers of Commerce warned.

On Monday, a further 697 people were reported as having tested positive for coronavirus in Scotland over the previous 24 hours, with cases also on the rise among the highly vulnerable elderly population. Among the 75-84 age group, the number of positive cases rose to the highest levels since the middle of May. There has been a sharp rise in the number of people in hospital with the virus over recent days.

Ms Sturgeon was due to agree a “package” of new restrictions with her scientific advisers on Monday afternoon before presenting them to her cabinet on Tuesday morning. They could be announced at Holyrood as soon as Tuesday afternoon.

Over recent days, ministers and Scottish Government advisers have repeatedly talked up the prospect of a “short, sharp shock” to the spread of the virus, in the form of temporary restrictions, that could “buy time” ahead of winter.

Documents leaked a fortnight ago ago show that among the other measures under consideration for a two-week lockdown were the reintroduction of the stay at home message, the closure of entertainment venues such as cinemas and shutting hairdressers.

The First Minister said that no final decision had been taken. She said the term circuit breaker could mean "a number of things" and that it "could well be" that any new measures would not be as severe as the full lockdown the UK went into in March.

However, it would leave the Scottish public facing significantly tighter restrictions on their lives than those in other parts of the UK.

A blanket ban on going to other people’s homes is already in force north of the border, a measure that has only been adopted on a localised basis in England.

Warning that new measures may be needed in the “near future”, Ms Sturgeon said: “It is vital we do everything we can to get the situation under control, of course in a proportional way.

“I know nobody wants to be contemplating these restrictions right now, I don’t want to be contemplating these restrictions. But we know from experience that getting this virus under control as quickly as possible helps to save lives. Counter to that is not acting to get it under control costs lives that would otherwise be saved, so this really matters.

"If we decide extra restrictions are necessary, it is because we deem it vital to get the virus under control and avoid unnecessary loss of life."

While Ms Sturgeon said economic considerations would be taken into account, the prospect of further nationwide measures have horrified businesses.

She singled out the hospitality sector - pubs, restaurants, bars and cafes - as an area in which “we may have to go further for a period”. She has previously hinted strongly that she would have closed pubs again by now, had she had more economic powers to support the businesses.

Gregor Smith, the Chief Medical Officer, said that shopping, social spaces in workplaces as well as hospitality venues had been linked to the recent surge in cases, alongside meeting indoors.

Adam Tomkins, a Scottish Tory MSP, said: "If this isn’t a damning indictment of Sturgeon’s failed strategy, I don’t know what is." Richard Leonard, the Scottish Labour leader, said pubs and bars were being treated like "Sodom and Gomorrah."

Unveiling her blueprint, Ms Sturgeon admitted that "in many respects" it represented a "backward step" but insisted it was not a lockdown as "we are living much more freely now than in the spring and early summer."

She said the restrictions were "intended to be short, sharp action to arrest a worrying increase in infection".

"Without them, there is a risk the virus will be out of control by the end of this month," she told MSPs.

Ms Sturgeon announced that in the Central Belt contact sports, with the exception of professional sport, outdoor live events and group exercise activities will be banned. Gyms will remain open for individual exercise.

The First Minister also unveiled plans for a review of her government's testing strategy and a new "strategic framework setting out the different levels of intervention which can be adopted in the future, either locally or across Scotland." This will be put to a vote in parliament.

People drink outdoors in Pitlochry as Nicola Sturgeon unveils new restrictions
People drink outdoors in Pitlochry as Nicola Sturgeon unveils new restrictions CREDIT: Reuters
But Stephen Montgomery, spokesman for the Scottish Hospitality Group, said: "This is not a 'short, sharp shock', rather a crippling stranglehold that will result in many Scottish pubs and restaurants unable to reopen in lockdown areas if this becomes indefinite."

Andrew McRae, the Federation of Small Businesses' Scotland policy chair, said: "Without sufficient support from government, today’s moves could mean last orders for many independent pubs and restaurants."

Tracy Black, CBI Scotland director, said the latest restrictions were "a crushing blow for a vital part of the Scottish economy" and it was "deeply disappointing" that Ms Sturgeon ordered firms to close without providing details of financial support.

Liz Cameron, the Scottish Chambers of Commerce chief executive, said: "A complete and utter lack of consultation with business only serves to compound the blows of these restrictions.

“We simply cannot continue to keep switching the lights of the economy on and off. Where is the plan to show that this action will stop the spread and where is the plan to manage working and living with the risks of this pandemic in the medium term are questions businesses are asking."


David Lonsdale, director of the Scottish Retail Consortium Director, said: "The current approach falls well short of what is required."

Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tories' Holyrood leader, said: "A one-day consultation after today’s announcement – and just hours before businesses are forced to close their doors - is just not good enough.

Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, said: "These complex set of measures are being rushed through at break neck speed and look more like a panicked knee jerk reaction than a considered, debated and agreed strategy. "

Johann Lamont, the former Scottish Labour leader, told Ms Sturgeon those "responsible for the kite flying and briefing over the last few weeks" should be "ashamed of themselves."

But Ms Sturgeon said: "The people she is inviting me to 'sort out', I guess the people she's referring to are advisers to me and the government who right now are working around the clock to try and help this country through a pandemic." :D_rinks

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honestbroker1
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by honestbroker1 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:30 pm

honestbroker1 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:21 pm
Cafes in Scotland to stay open:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54466992

Testing ....

testing

More from The Telegraph:
Nicola Sturgeon’s hospitality shutdown has descended into chaos hours before it is due to come into force after her government failed to define which eateries were able to stay open if they stopped serving alcohol.

The First Minister offered a last-minute reprieve to licensed cafes in the Central Belt on Thursday, saying they could stay open if they did not sell alcoholic drinks, but failed to define which outlets would be deemed 'cafes', 'restaurants' or 'bars'.

This prompted confusion across the industry, with desperate business owners questioning whether their outlets were cafes and allowed to stay open or restaurants and therefore must shut for 16 days at 6pm this evening. Pub owners serving food also questioned why the exemption could not be extended to them if they operated on a dry basis.

The confusion deepened on Thursday night after Jason Leitch, Scotland's national clinical director, said it would be up to council environmental health officers to decide and enforce the rules, contradicting Ms Sturgeon's statement only hours earlier when she said a "specific exemption" for cafes would be set out in regulations.
However, the prospect of a further lockdown was branded “unacceptable” by business leaders, who warned that it would take the economy “back to square one”.

A move to “keep switching the lights of the economy on and off” would risk not just jobs but the wellbeing of entire communities, the Scottish Chambers of Commerce warned.

On Monday, a further 697 people were reported as having tested positive for coronavirus in Scotland over the previous 24 hours, with cases also on the rise among the highly vulnerable elderly population. Among the 75-84 age group, the number of positive cases rose to the highest levels since the middle of May. There has been a sharp rise in the number of people in hospital with the virus over recent days.

Ms Sturgeon was due to agree a “package” of new restrictions with her scientific advisers on Monday afternoon before presenting them to her cabinet on Tuesday morning. They could be announced at Holyrood as soon as Tuesday afternoon.

Over recent days, ministers and Scottish Government advisers have repeatedly talked up the prospect of a “short, sharp shock” to the spread of the virus, in the form of temporary restrictions, that could “buy time” ahead of winter.

Documents leaked a fortnight ago ago show that among the other measures under consideration for a two-week lockdown were the reintroduction of the stay at home message, the closure of entertainment venues such as cinemas and shutting hairdressers.

The First Minister said that no final decision had been taken. She said the term circuit breaker could mean "a number of things" and that it "could well be" that any new measures would not be as severe as the full lockdown the UK went into in March.

However, it would leave the Scottish public facing significantly tighter restrictions on their lives than those in other parts of the UK.

A blanket ban on going to other people’s homes is already in force north of the border, a measure that has only been adopted on a localised basis in England.

Warning that new measures may be needed in the “near future”, Ms Sturgeon said: “It is vital we do everything we can to get the situation under control, of course in a proportional way.

“I know nobody wants to be contemplating these restrictions right now, I don’t want to be contemplating these restrictions. But we know from experience that getting this virus under control as quickly as possible helps to save lives. Counter to that is not acting to get it under control costs lives that would otherwise be saved, so this really matters.

"If we decide extra restrictions are necessary, it is because we deem it vital to get the virus under control and avoid unnecessary loss of life."

While Ms Sturgeon said economic considerations would be taken into account, the prospect of further nationwide measures have horrified businesses.

She singled out the hospitality sector - pubs, restaurants, bars and cafes - as an area in which “we may have to go further for a period”. She has previously hinted strongly that she would have closed pubs again by now, had she had more economic powers to support the businesses.

Gregor Smith, the Chief Medical Officer, said that shopping, social spaces in workplaces as well as hospitality venues had been linked to the recent surge in cases, alongside meeting indoors.

Adam Tomkins, a Scottish Tory MSP, said: "If this isn’t a damning indictment of Sturgeon’s failed strategy, I don’t know what is." Richard Leonard, the Scottish Labour leader, said pubs and bars were being treated like "Sodom and Gomorrah."

Unveiling her blueprint, Ms Sturgeon admitted that "in many respects" it represented a "backward step" but insisted it was not a lockdown as "we are living much more freely now than in the spring and early summer."

She said the restrictions were "intended to be short, sharp action to arrest a worrying increase in infection".

"Without them, there is a risk the virus will be out of control by the end of this month," she told MSPs.

Ms Sturgeon announced that in the Central Belt contact sports, with the exception of professional sport, outdoor live events and group exercise activities will be banned. Gyms will remain open for individual exercise.

The First Minister also unveiled plans for a review of her government's testing strategy and a new "strategic framework setting out the different levels of intervention which can be adopted in the future, either locally or across Scotland." This will be put to a vote in parliament.

People drink outdoors in Pitlochry as Nicola Sturgeon unveils new restrictions
People drink outdoors in Pitlochry as Nicola Sturgeon unveils new restrictions CREDIT: Reuters
But Stephen Montgomery, spokesman for the Scottish Hospitality Group, said: "This is not a 'short, sharp shock', rather a crippling stranglehold that will result in many Scottish pubs and restaurants unable to reopen in lockdown areas if this becomes indefinite."

Andrew McRae, the Federation of Small Businesses' Scotland policy chair, said: "Without sufficient support from government, today’s moves could mean last orders for many independent pubs and restaurants."

Tracy Black, CBI Scotland director, said the latest restrictions were "a crushing blow for a vital part of the Scottish economy" and it was "deeply disappointing" that Ms Sturgeon ordered firms to close without providing details of financial support.

Liz Cameron, the Scottish Chambers of Commerce chief executive, said: "A complete and utter lack of consultation with business only serves to compound the blows of these restrictions.

“We simply cannot continue to keep switching the lights of the economy on and off. Where is the plan to show that this action will stop the spread and where is the plan to manage working and living with the risks of this pandemic in the medium term are questions businesses are asking."


David Lonsdale, director of the Scottish Retail Consortium Director, said: "The current approach falls well short of what is required."

Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tories' Holyrood leader, said: "A one-day consultation after today’s announcement – and just hours before businesses are forced to close their doors - is just not good enough.

Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, said: "These complex set of measures are being rushed through at break neck speed and look more like a panicked knee jerk reaction than a considered, debated and agreed strategy. "

Johann Lamont, the former Scottish Labour leader, told Ms Sturgeon those "responsible for the kite flying and briefing over the last few weeks" should be "ashamed of themselves."

But Ms Sturgeon said: "The people she is inviting me to 'sort out', I guess the people she's referring to are advisers to me and the government who right now are working around the clock to try and help this country through a pandemic."

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:13 am

On COVID in general, the countries / areas that have fared the best so far are those that clamped down hard and fast, and kept an eye on the ball.

In most countries, some of the harshest / data intrusive methods wouldn't be tolerated, but NZ and Germany seem to have done quite well via other means.

(Jury is out for me on the Swedish approach.)

From what I'm reading, there appears to be a false dichotomy between health OR economy.

For whatever reasons, a number of countries had disbanded / suspended / reorganised their pandemic watch units and so were late to catch on (despite warnings from the WHO), didn't have an emergency plan in place, including logistics, and hadn't renewed stockpiles of supplies and got caught out by the sudden worldwide surge in demand.

I find it fair to say, on the other hand, that existing modelling was largely based on a flu epidemic, and that there were a lot of unknowns about COVID.

The so-called Barrington Declaration (basically the "herd immunity" + sheltering all the vulnerable idea) is being criticised as a) it wouldn't work in practice and b) the driving force / funding behind it appears politically biased.

"Sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian think tank that is part of a Koch-funded network of organizations associated with climate change denial".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bar ... eclaration

People in many countries are now having to face a second wave, which is a desperate situation for so many small businesses (pubs, restaurants, public entertainment, fitness centres, hairdressers...), as well as employees of even major industries (travel, etc.) through no fault of their own.

Add to that the depressing situation for so many who can't be with their loved ones, and / or are having to face new lockdowns for undefined periods in limited space.

The past can't be changed, but what now?
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:11 am

It really doesn't seem to be a flu-type illness, in the sense that if you get over it, you're then ok. Little is known about how long immunity lasts, even if you've had it.

There's also the long COVID...

https://news.sky.com/story/long-covid-t ... s-12104961
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:17 pm

Personally, I've made a few mistakes over time, as I imagine most of us have.

However, as a general rule, I try to:

- Always wear a clean mask, except when I'm unlikely to encounter anyone within 1-2 metres, where I just keep one handy to pull over my face.

- Keep a distance, even from people I'd love to hug.

- Wash my hands with soap when possible, otherwise use gel frequently and as soon as it registers that I could have touched something contaminated.

- Avoid indoor or even outdoor crowds.
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:35 pm

There's no zero risk, but so far, these simple rules seem to have worked. Except where people thought it was all over and life could go back to "normal".
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Alibongo » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:51 pm

I have two friends who work in the nhs and caught covid back in march/April both have ongoing health issues now. My daughter who also had covid now has to take two inhalers a day. Very worrying :s_sad
And still unable to smell or taste apart from most foods tasting disgusting.
Parent-blaming is all-too-common these days, and usually the point is to make other parents feel better about their own parenting skills

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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by honestbroker1 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:10 pm

Alibongo wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:51 pm
I have two friends who work in the nhs and caught covid back in march/April both have ongoing health issues now. My daughter who also had covid now has to take two inhalers a day. Very worrying :s_sad
And still unable to smell or taste apart from most foods tasting disgusting.
Yes. The it's (covid!) no worse than flu brigade have a great deal to answer for.

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:01 pm

Study Finds ‘Single Largest Driver’ of Coronavirus Misinformation: Trump

Cornell University researchers analyzing 38 million English-language articles about the pandemic found that President Trump was the largest driver of the “infodemic.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/us/p ... ation.html
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Thu May 27, 2021 9:14 am

If anyone missed - or can't watch - Dominic Cummings' input to the Covid Parliamentary Committee (warning it lasts for over 5 hrs):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ5zEwuovB4

A few highlights on Channel 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36blF51LPRY


Something I picked up on somewhere in the middle of Dom Com's input was that BoJo seemed more intent on listening to a woman from Oxford, Gupta (he seemed to recall).

Double-checking on that, it would seem to be Sunetra Gupta.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... etra-gupta

... Who was a primary author of the Great Barrington Declaration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bar ... eclaration

... which, as I'd posted above back in October (see above) was:

"Sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian think tank that is part of a Koch-funded network of organizations associated with climate change denial".

If that "Declaration" had been published back in e.g., February 2020, I could just about have found it to be an avenue to explore in the absence of much knowledge about how dangerous Covid would be. (By the end of Feb, beginning of March, Italian doctors, inter alia, were screaming out to the UK to do everything possible to take action so as not to find themselves in Italy's overwhelming situation.) But this "Declaration" was published on 4 OCTOBER 2020 !!!

On a brighter note:
Someone I find excellent in the UK is Prof Devi Sridhar (chair of Public Health at Edinburgh Uni). She's no Jill-come-lately, AFAIK, she's been advocating the same strategy all along (Channel 4):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBQ6ixbqMhc
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Thu May 27, 2021 9:51 am

Much to my surprise, I found Dominic Cummings to be fairly straightforward on the Covid shenanigans in No. 10, but that could just be because he admitted what I'd long suspected.

However.... I still wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him for numerous reasons.

Way beyond his gripes with BoJo and Hancock.
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by honestbroker1 » Thu May 27, 2021 11:48 am

This has precisely WHAT to do with covid IN SCOTLAND?

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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Thu May 27, 2021 12:55 pm

honestbroker1 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 11:48 am
This has precisely WHAT to do with covid IN SCOTLAND?
Prof Devi Sridhar?
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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Carana
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Re: Covid in Scotland

Post by Carana » Thu May 27, 2021 12:57 pm

Carana wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 12:55 pm
honestbroker1 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 11:48 am
This has precisely WHAT to do with covid IN SCOTLAND?
Prof Devi Sridhar?
NB: At least there was a connection between the thread title and my post. ;)
"A professor of mine used to say 'I have as a pet a coprophagic beetle, who eats only dung. His antennae quiver when he detects the presence of his food.'" - Edison, English-language Wikipedia Admin

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