Katrice Lee

[Carana]

Missing person investigation: Katrice Lee

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p011hz7n

Amazing age progressions!

[Carana]

Amazing talent.

http://www.teriblythe.co.uk/

[Cath]

30 years she is missing!

[urcrazy]

Apparently the Army have apologised to the family because of the way they were treated and the inadequate investigation. They have been looking at it again.

[scoobydoo]

There seems to have been so little done and so little known about what happened. I wonder if she got a bit lost and followed someone else out of the store thinking they were her mum. I can't see how she could have never been found unless there was a third party who hid her.

[urcrazy]

The Army said she must have wandered off, and ended up in the river. But the family never believed it because she had to cross a car park and get through a hedge to get to the river.

[scoobydoo]

The Army said she must have wandered off, and ended up in the river. But the family never believed it because she had to cross a car park and get through a hedge to get to the river.

I can't see a two year old being able to manage finding their way across a car park. I think a two year old would have been upset at losing their mother not taking themselves to the river. The police seem to have been incredibly laid back about it, far far worse than the PJ were with Madeleine or the Greek police with Ben. I can't see how it would have been that difficult to solve if they had properly investigated at the time since she disappeared in a shop to which only certain people had access.

[scoobydoo]

Why does this case get so little publicity? Even back in 1991 when there was no twenty four hour news, no internet etc Ben Needham's case did get a fair amount of publicity. Yet even today katrice Lee gets very little publicity. Is it the military angle? Not wanting to find out a British soldier kidnapped a British child, whilst on German soil? Wanting to minimise publicity about the monumental mess the British military made of the case? Both?

From what I can gather katrice was in the shop with her mum and aunt. Her dad was in the car outside. The shop was the NAAFI but on a civilian street on German soil. It was the last payday before Christmas and the shop was unusually crowded. Katrice, her mum and her aunt got to the check out when her mum realised she had forgotten crisps. She put katrice down and left her with her aunt to go and get the crisps. Her aunt however thought katrice was following her mum. That was the last known sighting.

A military shop even on a civilian street isn't going to be a place anyonbe would plan to kidnap a child from. So if it was a kidnapping it was opportunistic. But it was so busy would someone honestly see a lost child and walk out with her during a shopping trip? If only military and their families could use the shop it seems very unlikely. (But I am thinking this as it seems that if this happened it would have been quickly discovered, but of course the police didn't bother investigating). Isn't it more likely she followed her mum and in the crowds started following someone else and walked out of the shop and something happened then? But what? How far could a two year old walk without someone stopping her?

Has this been on German TV at all?

[Whiterose]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ago.html

Poor sweet little girl, it was her birthday too, can't bear to think what that evil monster did to her, good job the bastard is dead

[scoobydoo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ago.html

Poor sweet little girl, it was her birthday too, can't bear to think what that evil monster did to her, good job the bastard is dead

Oh I hope this isn't true. Bastard, stealing the most precious thing and then refusing to even allow the parents to know. Forcing them to live not knowing where their child is. I hope he was afraid of dying, afraid of facing God who knows exactly what he did

[catkins]

I read that Katrice family were very upset about this report.....and say it isn't true.

The Robert Black connection....that is.

[Carana]

I'm afraid I'll take that so-called connection with a bucket of salt for the moment. Looking at the wording closely, it's a similar load of waffle to all the sensational "Maddie" ones.

The only potential point of substance is:

He claims petrol receipts in Black's as yet unreleased police file show he had travelled to the outskirts of the German city to plaster up posters in the lead up to advent, 1981.

Who is this child abduction expert (everyone and their brother claims to be one these days)?

And how would he have got hold of petrol receipts in a police file that hadn't been released?

Then, we get:

He'd have been visiting British Army camps along the Rhine, including Paderborn. I'm quite convinced Black quietly befriended Katrice Lee, took her to his van outside the NAAFI and took her away.

The historical German city lies just off the delivery route Black would have used visiting the country - Highway 33.

And:

Speaking to The Mirror, Mr Clark said: 'Katrice disappeared just a few weeks before Christmas, when Black would have been travelling to Germany to put posters out for alcohol and cigarette firms.

If this "expert" does indeed have access to the receipts, he would know where Black had been, but it's not stated as fact.

If ever the receipts turn out to be true, then it's obviously a lead worth exploring, but the police would hopefully have already done so since reopening the case.

These stories keep the child's profile in the news, but if people simply take such articles as fact, then it's unlikely that they are likely to suddenly remember (or come across) a potential clue concerning the real culprit. A bit of a Catch-22.

[Carana]

One of the comments:

ponoga, shrewsbury, United Kingdom, about 17 hours ago

Pity you didn't warn the family of the publication of this article before going to print . This family who are personally known to me have gone through hell over the last 32 years a bit of of respect wouldn't have gone amiss .As a person who was actively involved at the time this news came as quite a sickening shock ,God knows how they felt reading it without warning

[Carana]

This person appears to have interpreted the article as fact.

lauramarie90, Derry, United Kingdom, a day ago

To think a serial killer was stalking Paderborn at one time gives me the chills. I lived there for 6 months and it felt like the safest place in the world. Its very picturesque and everyone is very friendly. Before reading this article I would never have dreamed anything like this would have happened there. Poor little girl. Wherever she is that monster took it with him to the grave. I hope they find her. Her family need closure.

[catkins]

[scoobydoo]

Jesus, they didn't tell the family.

[Carana]

Jesus, they didn't tell the family.

Not hard to imagine how the McCanns felt when they woke up to the "Gerry-not-father" headlines...

[scoobydoo]

Here is the e fit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-39113991

[scoobydoo]

what i find hard in this case is that it seems this was an isolated case. I would ASSUME that if there had been other abductions the german police would have looked for a connection. But what about cases where someone just tried to lure a child away, flashing, someone who seemed a bit creepy to a parent with a toddler with them, cases of abuse withing families. A lot of these might not be reported to police yet could be relevant. Thats why those living int he area need their memories jogged. I cannot believe someone had a blameless life, went to a supermarket just happened to see a child seperated from her parents for a couple of minutes so took the opportunity to kidnap them, and then carried on living a blameless life. what about people in their fifties and upwards who have been found in possession or looking for on the internet images of child abuse, surely they ware worth looking into.

It was apparently a really bust day in this shop as it was last pay day before christmas, and although it was a military shop it was off base and apparently in practice anyone could and did go in there. Katrices mum left katrice with her aunt at the check out and went to get some crisps. In the meantime katrices aunt let katrice follow her mother and in the two minutes it took to get the crisps katrice was gone. Now its so busy that katrice looses track of her mum, but is she wandering around the store looking and someone takes her from there, or does she follow someone out of the shop thinking they are her mum (she is following their legs, they have a similar coat or hairstyle from the back etc) and ends up away from the shop. She was two but little ones can get a lot further than you think. Or had someone been watching them in the shop and grabbed the opportunity the second she was away from her mother and aunt.

[catkins]

Good points Scooby......Especially this one I cannot believe someone had a blameless life, went to a supermarket just happened to see a child seperated from her parents for a couple of minutes so took the opportunity to kidnap them, and then carried on living a blameless life. what about people in their fifties and upwards who have been found in possession or looking for on the internet images of child abuse, surely they ware worth looking into

I find it strange too that the Army didn't get involved or more involved iykwim, it was one of their soldier's whose child disappeared.

[Carana]

Katrice Lee: Police to search German riverbank for British toddler missing since 1981

Katrice Lee vanished from a shopping centre in Germany close to the military base where her father was stationed for the Army.

12:05, UK, Monday 30 April 2018
A "major forensic search" is being launched on a riverbank in Germany for a British toddler who went missing more than 36 years ago.

Katrice Lee, from Hartlepool, vanished on her second birthday on 28 November 1981 from a NAAFI shopping centre in Schloss Neuhaus, close to the military base where her father was stationed for the Army.

At the time, a major search for the child, who had been shopping with her mother, was undertaken by the Royal Military Police (RMP), German police, British troops and volunteers.

The RMP announced on Monday that a team of investigators, reported to be 100-strong, will now carry out a five-week excavation of the nearby banks of the River Alme in Paderborn.
Undated file family handout photo of Katrice Lee before she went missing on her second birthday
Image: Undated file picture of Katrice Lee before she went missing

They said they reopened the case in 2012 following a reanalysis of evidence from the time which highlighted the riverbank as an area of interest.

Senior investigating officer Richard O'Leary, of the RMP, said: "On this basis, a team of military personnel and civilian forensic experts will be carrying out a detailed excavation of the site, which is expected to last approximately five weeks.

"The aim of the search is to find evidence that could finally shed light on what happened to Katrice."
An e-fit of a suspect in the disappearance of Katrice Lee issued by the Ministry of Defence
Image: An e-fit of a suspect in the disappearance of Katrice Lee issued by the Ministry of Defence

A photo-fit has been released of a man seen at the shopping centre placing a child matching the toddler's description into a green saloon car.

"A green saloon car was also seen on the River Alme Bridge near the NAAFI the day after Katrice disappeared. It may or may not be the same car, but we are very keen to identify this car," Mr O'Leary said.

Police are asking anyone from the Paderborn area who owned such a car at the time to approach them so they can be ruled out of the inquiry.
An age progression photo issued by the Ministry Of Defence of Katrice Lee, as she may look aged 38-years-old
Image: An age progression photo issued by the MOD of Katrice Lee, as she may look aged 38-years-old

Mr O'Leary said: "An age progression image of what Katrice may look like now, aged 38, has been produced.

"If anyone feels they know someone who looks like this, or believes they could be Katrice, then we would encourage them to come forward."


https://news.sky.com/story/katrice-lee- ... 1-11353655

[scoobydoo]

I had not heard that a man was seen putting a toddler on a car and a similsr was sen by the river the next day. When did this come to light? Surely this was in the area they looked at when she first disappeared? The military really behaved disgustingly in this case.